[00:00:04] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Consulting Specifying Engineer podcast. I'm your host Amara Rosgas and today we're talking to George Hawkinson with Burns and McDonnell about data analysis and visualization for building experts. Thanks for joining me today, George.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Hi Amara, thank you for having me. I look forward to our conversation today.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, Let me share some background before we get too deep into this topic.
George Hawkinson is Commissioning Manager, Building Automation Systems with Burns and McDonnell based in Kansas City, Missouri. George brings more than 23 years of experience in the design, development and deployment of building automation, industrial automation, energy management and distributed big data architectural solutions.
The combination of his experience and the Burns McDonnell market leadership position has accelerated new business opportunities.
Supporting stakeholders by providing strategic decision making tools that offer holistic insights into enterprise wide operations, building conditions and occupant comfort and productivity.
That's a big one, George. All right, let me jump in here.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: It's a mouthful. It's a mouthful.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: It is a mouthful. Yes, yes. So let me kind of set the table here. What are some of the biggest challenges in integrating data from multiple sources and how can building owners, engineers, designers overcome those data silos to create a unified data strategy?
[00:01:39] Speaker B: You know, this is a, this is a great question. This is something that I think our industry is beginning to address, but not effectively. And why I say that is during the, you know, during construction, during design of a project, you know, we leave the one key element or a group out of the conversation and that is the client's it.
They are the ones that are in charge of who communicates to who and what communicates to what and where with all these embedded devices or smart systems or whatever, generating tremendous amount of, you know, time series data or how the building's actually living or the assets actually living, you know, not having that data pipe or having those workflows in place with that group, the client's IT beforehand is going to put the project schedule, it's going to lengthen it, it's going to cause some disruptance disruptions in the process.
So really, when you're talking about bringing a big data strategy, those should be the first people that you talk with as far as how, what is their OT or their operating technology to their information technology network strategies. Right? Do they have one?
Those are the type of conversations that I think we as engineers or whoever in the construction realm are beginning to understand that, hey, we need to bring these folks on board sooner in the process.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: So looking at the full picture, measurement and verification are always important.
So what kind of key performance Indicators or metrics should be used to measure the effectiveness of data analysis.
You know, looking at operations and maintenance. How do building owners track this? What does all of that look like?
[00:03:28] Speaker B: You know, it's kind of interesting where, you know, what was it? The high performance, definite definition of a high performance building is really providing a safe, productive and healthy and secure environment. Right.
You know, just those different terms are good KPIs or metrics as far as how well or what needs to be seen within, you know, how well a building is performing. Right.
Operations managers or directors or our facility teams, you know, we live in the world of overhead, right. We don't really, what would you say? We don't really influence, we kind of do but production, right. The revenue generating side.
And so how do we provide value or information as far as how this asset, this big building and all the different things are, are providing value? I mean we've been as an industry, we concentrate on energy because that's something that, you know, people can relate to. They can calculate, they can, they can see how much it costs, they can see how much, you know, saved based on whatever strategies they have. But it really doesn't tell the full story as far as what, what facility managers need to provide. I mean they need to provide a place that's productive, that is comfortable, that that allows them to. When something breaks, it's not so so much as predicting when something breaks, but it's really creating the workflows that they could, they can recover from that break, fix or something component.
Those are the type of things as far as the KPIs that I would say outside of the traditional energy, even space utilization or you know, how many, what's your carbon footprint, that type of stuff. But really talk about how quickly can they recover from something when something breaks, what does that look like now? What was that actual cost?
Those are really the things that I look at when we, when we design these systems for those people that are actually having to operate and maintain.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: So I think there are a lot of different questions about this next topic. And I mean we've talked about this a lot.
But specific to this area that we're discussing today, how can data visualization be used to effectively communicate insights to non technical people or you know, help drive decision making?
[00:05:56] Speaker B: You know, this is the age old question, right? Who's the audience? I mean the audience could be anyone and or what is their expertise in that? It's really about, there's twofold. You can have dashboards or you know, different user interfaces for particular people. But again, it's very static, right? You meet with them for a small period of time to say, hey, what, what, what are the. What interests you? Is it what space utilization is? How often we're occupied? Is it, you know, what your cost per square foot is? Is it, you know, those type of things, you know, really with all the tools like Power BI or Splunk or, you know, all those neat analytics tools that a lot of people, especially in the C suite, have access to and know how to use, it's really about, okay, hey, here is the pipe to get that data from that particular data source and allow them to then ask those questions. Now, as far as facility managers concerned or whatnot, it's very important, again, for them to be able to have those tools, to be able to use the tools that are familiar with them. Even Excel, you know, even Excel can help if. As long as they can get access to that data so they could generate those reports. As far as, you know, what, what, what is interest in this today? Is it. Is it. Do I need to find out what my life cycle, this building is? You know, what is the actual cost compared to maybe a new site? Do I, you know, do I have too much space? Do I know, have enough space?
You know, all those different questions, but really it's about how can we get the data in a position to allow these other applications outside of the traditional dashboards that we create for, you know, typical. Or operation and maintenance and whatnot.
But then other people outside of the, in the world that actually have to see what the cost or the operations or whatever questions they have about the built space that they could do themselves.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Do digital twins ever come into play, George, with any of your clients, or is this something that anyone's using either in the design process or the retrofit process?
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, that's a great question.
The digital twin has been. The concept has really been around forever, right?
It's just people.
It's marketing, for one thing. But if you think about it, I think we're even closer today to really getting to that digital twin than we were before. I mean, you have with revit models and all this kind of good stuff, you have all that metadata, right? The characteristics of the equipment that they designed, whether that's a pump, it's a fan, it's a wall, or anything like that. But now that we've kind of. We're getting better with our data strategy, with the time series data, as far as how these systems are living, right? How they're actually operating, combining those Two together. That's somewhat of your digital twin now. Now, we've been kind of doing that all over, but it hasn't really come to gel together or come together in one big, you know, awesomeness in a sense. As far as at the end of a project, it's still, like you said, there's still data silos that haven't been met. And we have. There's a lot of companies out there, you know, including ours, that we're kind of looking to see how can we bridge or merge those two data sources together. Now the last thing that I'd like to say though, too, is all that time series data that the one thing I think in a digital twin that is really missing is kind of the simulation, the what ifs, right? And that's kind of where AI could be coming into play too, where you have. How the building's been operating. All of a sudden, you know, a client needs to add another manufacturing line or they need to add another wing to it, or they want to say, hey, we want to use this existing space not as operating, but as something else to be able to stimulate what, the heat load or the light levels or all that kind of good stuff to see, hey, do we have enough existing mechanical, you know, or, or, or something to. To provide what is needed for that new space, or do we need to add and engineer a whole new, you know, cooling system or heating system or whatever it is? I think once we get to that point that then we'll truly have a real digital twin that is actually a business digital twin, if that makes sense of the built space. But those are my two cents.
[00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that does make sense. Thank you.
So it sounds like you're kind of busy, George.
What are you doing in your free time these days?
[00:10:29] Speaker B: You know, I have, I have, I have three beautiful children and an awesome wife. That's, that's.
Those are what I do in my spare time. Right now I have a, you know, a freshman in college, he's doing his thing, but really we're kind of in that weird, you know, that spot where we have no drivers. So taking our kids to their events, spending time with them, watching them, you know, you know, succeed and fail and picking them up. I mean, that's kind of the, the, The American dream, in a sense.
But to spend time with, with them and seeing how they are blossoming is, is. Is pretty important to me.
That's what we spend our time with.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Or as you just phrased it, one big awesomeness.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: It really is. And you know, every once in a while, my wife and I go on a date. So that's. That's also important, too. Can't miss that.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Definitely. Definitely. Well, thank you so much, George. I do appreciate your time today.
[00:11:24] Speaker B: Oh, Mar, I really appreciate you having me on board. I. I hope I'm able to help.
You know, anyone in the audience, if they have any, just give us a call. We'd love to talk with you, but. Yeah. Thank you for having us. Appreciate it.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Excellent.
Well, once again, that was George Hawkinson with Barnes and McDonnell. For more information on building integration, data analysis, or other engineering topics, visit Consulting specifying
[email protected].
and don't forget to check in every other Tuesday for new podcast episodes. Thanks for listening and catch you next time. Bye. Bye.
